By Theo Baker '22 I was given one day and 1000 words to write about a topic deeply impactful to me, so I’ll try to make it as impactful for you. I’m currently sitting in my mother’s childhood home, looking at a framed black and white photo, searching for answers. This photo (the very one seen above) is of my family—of my great-great-great grandfather and his happy, healthy clan. Can you guess what happened to them? Every single one, with the exception of the young lady in the first row dressed in white, was lined up and shot to death. Every child, every woman, even the 90-year-old Moishe in the center of the center row. Every single one of them was seized from their homes in Poland and shot because they were Jewish. Please, please tell me what kind of a God can let six million of His devoted followers—of His creations—be put to work, tortured, and executed, simply because they were of a certain denomination. The Holocaust was a barbarious act construed by the very dregs of humanity and yet supported by so many. It was a genocide of horrific proportions and one which eliminated whole families with potential future Nobel winners and activists and humanitarian aid workers and which left those remaining with scars they would never be able to shake off. Even if the claim is that these poor, tortured souls were immediately given their restitution in heaven, what about the effect this had on the people who suffered in the camps watching their relatives die but surviving themselves only to spend the rest of their lives haunted by this? When I think of the pain and horror of the Holocaust, and even putting aside my philosophical and rational objections to religion, I just can’t reconcile the idea of an omnipotent being of pure love creating us in His image, knowing full well what our actions would be, and even so choosing to unleash us upon each other without bothering to ensure a semblance of safety and happiness. Were the deaths of six million so forgettable to God that he couldn’t lift a metaphorical/metaphysical finger to aid us? Was it so much more important to free the people of Israel from their benevolent Roman rulers than to prevent the slaughter of millions only 1500 year later that He sent His very own son to deal with the first and did nothing for the second? I simply can’t buy that. And if the argument is that God loved us so much that he set us free to enact our own free will… well… it’s safe to say I disagree with that. To my mind, there is no free will; there is no spirit to guide us. Instead, we are highly evolved animals, to whom the development of a consciousness was essential to compete with stronger, faster predators. Instead of a magic, immortal, preternatural soul, we have physical processes that control our actions. We have personalities, morals, ethics, and emotions built on our intake of information and the connections our neurons make whenever we take in new information. What makes us special is the 100 trillion synapses of the brain, not some ghost in the machine running the tv show of our lives. This is plainly apparent because, when you change someone’s brain, they become an entirely different person. That isn’t the whole story though, because you could still argue for free will even in the absence of a soul. The whole story has to do with what our brain actually is, and, according to the most prominent of scientists (take Stanford neuroscientist David Eagelman), most of what happens in our brain is not what we think it is. We take it for granted that the choices we make are our own—that we spontaneously came up with them. But the thing is, our conscious minds are only responsible for the most minute of details. The main driver of the brain and, indeed, our lives, is the unconscious, which throws up ideas and emotions to the conscious, creating the illusion of free will. It seems like we have a choice because we have our secondary layer of processing (the slow-moving conscious, used for dilemenas outside the scope of typical challenges), but most of our decisions (and especially our most consequential ones) are made by the biological hardwiring of our unconscious coupled with the experiences we’ve had up until the point of the decision. For example, if I spontaneously think, “I want an iced chai tea latte,” factors such as low humidity, tiredness, my prior sensory experiences with chai lattes, and innumerable things besides that are the actual decision-makers—not me. That’s not to say all human behavior should be excused because it was preordained, but it does mean that we have to analyze the true roots of our ideas to understand anything. Humanity has always searched for purpose in life, and religion has—for a long time—fulfilled that need. But that’s changing as more and more people realize that religion is merely a placeholder for things we don’t fully understand, a cop out for questioning that essentially says: ‘you’ll never know because it’s divine; trust that God has your interests at heart as your maker.’ I’ve experienced this first hand. I lived in the “holiest city on earth,” and was thrust headfirst into the religious fervor of times past. When I lived in Jerusalem, I witnessed acts of terrific horrific-ness carried out in the name of a God and responded to in turn by worshippers of another religion. Day after day would be a stabbing, a shooting, a bombing, or a rape case, and day after day after day I saw the strife that religion brought, and the justification it provided for all the very clear sins of objectively bad people. I saw that these people blindly followed what they believed to be the truth without questioning their raison-d'etre in the slightest, bowling ahead in their foolishness with all the might of the rockets and bombs they carried. Religion provided them an excuse for their actions and an excuse for not examining the truth because it is an inherently human concept of vanity, carrying all the flaws of humanity and our ego with it. By the way, these bouts of violence stem in part from the Holocaust, so not only did God not stop a monstruous genocide, but He also enabled a continuous war of brutality (not for the first time; see: the Inquisition, Crusades, etc). We’re one planet out of an infinite number that was blessed with perfect conditions for carbon-based life, and that’s a miracle—but not a divine one. Our lives have no greater purpose than the ones we make for ourselves, because life is fleeting and it’s all we have. Once your neurons and synapses—the very things that make you, you—fade, you’re gone forever, regardless of what you’ve done on earth, and it’s important for the progression of society that we acknowledge that the only meaning we have is the one we make. I believe that religion will die out in its spiritual form, replaced by the sense of community that already serves as one of its most appealing factors. The next era of human evolution is human-based, and, to advance our own societies and experience more with our paltry lives, we have to acknowledge the true causes behind everything and address them to suit our needs.
102 Comments
Anonymous
9/23/2019 03:44:24 pm
What is your point? That people should not have religious beliefs? People have religious beliefs because they recognize how incredibly lucky we are to even exist. Thinking that, in this massive universe, we are the greatest thing to exist is not only ignorant, but self-centered.
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Thy Lord and Savior
9/23/2019 08:35:39 pm
We just haven't discovered any life yet... Anyways, the chances of forming a life-friendly planet and forming the biological molecules required are incredibly slim, not even including the millions of years needed to evolve from unicellular organisms to intelligent life. It is pure luck that this glob of matter formed life to this degree. There is almost certainly more life out there, but unlikely that it's both close enough to find and evolved enough to be able to communicate with us. Our probes can reach only a tiny fraction of the universe.
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Anonymous
9/23/2019 09:21:16 pm
You clearly didn’t read my comment. To think that we just happened to exist and are the greatest beings out there is just ignorant. I want you to look at any human and say that a being so complex and amazing just randomly occurred. Also, the theory of atheism makes perfect sense... once you accept that the entire universe spontaneously and randomly, for no reason at all, just existed. What existed before the universe? Why did the universe come into being?
bruh moment
9/23/2019 09:29:07 pm
To Mr/Ms Anonymous Person,
Jesus Christ
9/23/2019 09:42:42 pm
Dear Mr. bruh moment,
Thy Lord and Savior
9/23/2019 10:30:12 pm
Why would the existence of the world imply God exists? By your logic, 1. The existence of the world doesn't make sense (true, it doesn't), and this means God must exist because He must have created it. However, this leaves the question, where did God come from? God is everywhere always, no start no end doesn't make sense, and it's not an answer, it's just a religious proclamation intended to avoid the hard questions.
anon
9/23/2019 08:41:36 pm
lowkey hip
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Jesus Lord Almighty
9/23/2019 08:36:54 pm
Hell yeah Theo, I'm very hip to this
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YHWH
9/23/2019 08:44:52 pm
Hi Theo,
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The Book of Job
9/23/2019 08:52:50 pm
Ch. 40
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Leviathan
9/24/2019 11:53:22 am
Lmao I kill children too.
Job
9/23/2019 08:52:57 pm
Lmao, that book's trash.
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Job Mama
9/24/2019 11:58:27 am
..........
Greek for God
9/23/2019 09:31:01 pm
And what does it show, pray tell? (nothing in the least bit convincing -- especially when placed in the context of the rest of the bible -- is the answer)
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Jesus Christ
9/23/2019 08:55:44 pm
Let me get this straight. Your argument is bad things happen; therefore religion is bad.
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Bill Clinton
9/23/2019 09:18:57 pm
I'd beat you in a general election. Let that sink in. You would lose to me in a general election.
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Anonymous
9/23/2019 09:24:34 pm
Yup...
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Theo
9/23/2019 09:39:31 pm
yeah, so that wasn't me...
Lot
9/23/2019 09:50:51 pm
I have a feeling you are the author.
Actual Theo
9/25/2019 05:30:50 pm
Gents, please. The more the merrier. I’m not sure that religion can be blamed for the innumerable past atrocities attributed to it. For example, the “religious” crimes in Jerusalem were not a result of a religious differences, but racial and social ones rooted in our tribal nature. These actions were condemned by the teachings of their very own religions. I believe that religion is a valuable tool to bring people together rather than to promote violence. Was peace and justice not the very reason for Jesus’s supposed coming? Also, the Nazi party was not religious, and the Holocaust was not the result of an inter-religion schism. The Holocaust was the result of extreme racial prejudice towards Jewish culture, and it is wrong to believe that their religion could be the cause of it is wrong. And what God would do such a thing to his own creation? Well, these terrible things are the results of terrible people, and perhaps the role of religion is to help reconcile with these things, and give them meaning. To think that these innocent people suffered and died for nothing is soul crushing, and I find solace in the thought that they have been accepted into a new life void of suffering.
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Anonymous
9/23/2019 09:52:51 pm
I'm agnostic. I don't find most arguments for God convincing (ESPECIALLY the book of Job). However, if there were an airtight refutation of deism it would be much more publicized- professional theologians would be out of a job. Ultimately, we can't know (at a logical level) the right or wrong answer to the question of God, only "better" or "worse" ones. Religion is responsible for an immense amount of social good (see: its role in the Civil Rights movement). So if your religion is meaningful to you and helps you become a better person, it must be one of the better answers.
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Richard
9/24/2019 06:34:13 pm
I, a practicing Episcopalian second your point. This article seems to attempt to point to a concrete answer to the question inherent in religion, and misses the point that in a large majority of cases that question is the inherent basis behind belief. Doubting Thomas wasn't a less faithful, less good person because he said he had to see and touch to believe. But this article seems to attack the idea of the question as a whole, which just isn't the point in the slightest. To the author, if you read this, please read this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6399109/
davies van-voorhis
9/24/2019 08:47:37 pm
Hey Richard,
Richard Davies-Van Voorhis
9/25/2019 09:06:43 pm
Re-replying because I can't reply to the person who replied to me. If you use/tell me your actual name, we can chat! I love to discuss my faith, as long as it isn't done through an editorial. And to give you a quick answer, the book is a starting point, and I personally believe that ATHEISM is the cessation of questioning IN SOME CASES (I can go more in depth irl) and AGNOSTICISM is the act of still asking. One is I don't believe in God so no God, while the other is I haven't seen God proven, I'll keep looking for other reasons. And I'd caution you before you imply that "many don't even believe" the religion(s) they profess, as that can often be a bad assumption simply based on people's external expressions and habits. Which I know is important, but again, I'd have to sit down and chat for a while to really get out all my thoughts on the matter. I'm not saying and have never said that religion is THE answer. I just know that, for me, right now, the Episcopalian church is a community that fosters my faith, both in humanity, in a higher power, and in myself. In some ways, you cannot separate the faith from the community. Because they are one and the same. And also different. Remember how I said I don't have an answer? Send me an email or stop me in the hall irl and we can talk! "Even if the claim is that these poor, tortured souls were immediately given their restitution in heaven, what about the effect this had on the people who suffered in the camps watching their relatives die but surviving themselves only to spend the rest of their lives haunted by this?" With this example your counter does not suffice because using this argument the people that suffered by not dying would also eventually leave their sad lives up to eternal life and be reunited with their loved ones. "And if the argument is that God loved us so much that he set us free to enact our own free will… well… it’s safe to say I disagree with that." The thing here is that if you are a Christian or another similar faith you believe God gave humans free will. Also you bring up the point of omnipotence leading to control. There is a difference, just because someone is omnipotent does not mean that they control every action. Never confuse knowledge of the future with control over it. Humans are the ones to make that choice to kill someone or to do an evil deed not God. Also the sending of his only son down to earth was not about physical saving, it was about spiritual saving and washing away of the sin that plagued humans. Then you said "To my mind, there is no free will", then gave examples about how we are just whim to the components of connections in our brain and past experiences. If you believe we don't have free will then how can we hold any one accountable for their actions. Hitler has an evil being and I believe he made the choices and therefore should be punished for it, but if he had no free will was he was just doing what he was programmed to do. Taking away free will means that no one can be held accountable for anything at all. How can you fault a criminal if they are just like you yet they were unlucky enough to be programmed to . You say human behavior cannot be excused because it is preordained but the two contradict. Unless you believe that despite your preordainment is a luck of the draw and those who are unlucky should be punished for it. Another of your points is people in Jerusalem where not acting with what the religion teaches. You cannot fault someone just because something was done in their name. If someone went and did a bank robbery in your name should you be the one to be charged or held responsible. If I told someone to go get a withdrawal from the bank and they robbed the bank should I be held accountable, since I told them to do it. No I should not ,they mis interpret my words to suit their needs and that is on them not me. Another part I think is humans are so arrogant that they refuse to believe that someone greater them more powerful them can exist. . One more thing you are not factoring in is faith. Faith is prevelant in almost everything, science religion, news etc. There is a large amount of faith put into religion, you know that you do not have concrete evidence yet you are willing to humble yourself and put faith in something greater. Even proven "facts" require faith, the big bang, which is widely accepted as a fact now requires just about as much faith as religion. You put faith in a "scientist" to know how it happened. How many people can explain the big bang in detail. How many people were there at the time of the big bang. How many people know where everything came from before then. Where did all the different elements, atoms, molecules, neutrons, electrons come from. The thing is that no one knows. We try and convince ourselves that we know the answer saying "science". When you have to put just as much faith in something that should prove itself, I don't get that. You may ask where did God come from. The truth is I have no idea. I don't know and I am perfectly fine in the fact that something is greater and far more powerful than me. The real answer to all your questions is I don't know. There is a lot that goes unexplained and a lot that even the smartest people cannot explain. Why did the Holocaust happen. I don't know. We can try and grasp at all the different things that could be the reason. But there truly is no adequate answer that any human can give because, at the end of the day we really don't know everything, because we are not powerful enough to and we must come to grips with that.
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JT
9/23/2019 10:36:33 pm
Adding on to Micah’s point since he mentioned a lot of stuff I was going to say, theo you mention all the bad things you think (and wrongly attribute) are due to religion and fail to look at ALL THE GOOD THINGS as well as the necessity of religion in our culture, why do you think just about every single civilization ever has had a religion? Because you can’t just explain everything with numbers, humans are curious creatures and we strive to have an answer, whether that answer is right or not does not usually matter as long as it isn’t hurting people because it can create greater meaning and good in people’s lives if they know why they are here and how they should act towards each other with good reason. My final point I should make is that religion is culture, you can’t just erase it, I mean no offense to you or your grandparents in saying that they probably would not want you trying to undermine that Jewish culture by saying their god is not real and should not be believed in. Religion is a deep part of every society just like that cultures, art, architecture, politics, and other cultural things if not more important
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comrade drewon
9/24/2019 08:41:04 pm
seize the means of production comrades
Anonya
9/23/2019 09:51:55 pm
The Holocaust was truly horrible, but from what I can take away from this article it’s that even in the hard times one must stick to their faith. Their faith keeps them from falling into a deeper despair, and the feeling that God has a plan for you and everything over this land is overwhelming. Bad things don’t happen because of the lord, bad things come out of our own actions our own karmas if you will (that’s not to say the Holocaust was justified I am just making a general point) . You’re not self-centered and I accept and respect your opinion, but just know I too will keep you in my prayers and wish for your well being. You may not believe in a higher power but I hope that grace can touch you (and I’m sure it already has :)
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Corbet Darden
9/23/2019 09:56:24 pm
I may have not read closely enough, but as I understand it, your argument is more against Judeo-Christian beliefs than organized religion as a whole. I find this funny because I actually feel the opposite way. I think it's safe to say institutions like the medieval Catholic church have done much more to harm our society to this day than the beliefs of average people. Even so, this is a nice addition to a discussion that is often times stale with the same arguments spouted over and over again.
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Shen Bapiro
9/23/2019 09:58:05 pm
hip
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Anonymous
9/23/2019 10:10:51 pm
It seems to me that is argument is against the idea of religion, rather than specific beliefs. However, I do agree with you in that specific institutions— namely the medieval Catholic Church— did more harm than good. However, I believe that such harm stems not from religion, but from natural human corruption. To be honest, I feel that blaming the idea of religion, as he did, for the world’s problems is just lazy scapegoating, and is not conducive to problem-solving that actually needs to happen.
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Richard
9/24/2019 06:36:30 pm
One needs only to look to the authors description of religion as a whole: "a cop out for questioning that essentially says: ‘you’ll never know because it’s divine; trust that God has your interests at heart as your maker.’ " This is, while surrounded by a great deal of text, that cites some ok sources, the entirety of his point. And it is, as you said, lazy scapegoating.
Spencer
9/26/2019 06:22:58 pm
He never said that he blamed the world's problems on religion. He said that it gives people an excuse to do horrific things. An example of "lazy scapegoating" is believing in a God without any concrete evidence. As mentioned in another comment, this is a perfect example of the "God of the gaps". It suggests that because we don't know something yet, we fill it in with a diety such as the Abrahamic god. While we're not entirely sure how the universe began, that doesn't mean we should fill up that gap in knowledge with a god. For example, if we brought back any piece of modern technology to the past, then the people of that period would say it was magic and would not (yet) be able to explain it. Much like this example, we may not yet understand the beginning of the universe, but who's to say we won't in the next 50 years?
Lmao
9/23/2019 10:01:24 pm
"Lmao"
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Sam Rhee
9/23/2019 10:19:59 pm
Theo,
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Andrew Wu
9/23/2019 10:36:14 pm
agreed with Sam, glad to see that you wrote this and that the Exchanged published it.
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Thy Lord and Savior and Jesus Lord Almighty
9/23/2019 10:39:24 pm
Totally agree
Im goin got make my name"Jesus Christ" or something religious it'll be really funny and original
9/23/2019 10:52:48 pm
Yeah its not. Also vote Clinton!
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hm
9/23/2019 10:58:22 pm
What’s not?
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Thy Lord and Savior
9/23/2019 11:14:30 pm
Thy Lord and Savior was the first thing that came to mind when considering what to write in the Name field lmao
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Leviathan
9/24/2019 11:52:06 am
I kill children too
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(Zie/Zem)
9/24/2019 11:54:06 am
yeah i LIKE this article
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Mickled Fistress
9/24/2019 01:44:22 pm
According to the Declaration of 1843 all pickles are now to be referred to as fickles. So when you eat pickles, you are actually eating fickles, and that is where the term fickled mistress comes from.
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John Rhee
9/24/2019 03:16:41 pm
Yay. Religion sucks
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Holden lombardo
9/24/2019 03:19:53 pm
I'm stupid
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Richard
9/24/2019 06:37:31 pm
Thank you Holden very cool
anonymous
9/24/2019 08:42:28 pm
"john rhee" = holden lombardo
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Theo Baker
9/24/2019 03:18:22 pm
Micah has convinced me I know love God.
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JT car
9/24/2019 07:03:58 pm
Care to refute his points if you want to be sarcastic about it?
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Anonymous
9/24/2019 07:13:56 pm
("Theo Baker" = Holden)
The real john rhee
9/24/2019 03:21:01 pm
Holden has a bowl cut
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The real john rhee
9/25/2019 08:10:40 am
So do I
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The real hollden lombardo
9/25/2019 07:42:20 pm
wait john u dont have a bowl cut - i do
Pope Urban ll
9/24/2019 03:38:06 pm
Theo Baker must be converted. Me and the boys bouta crusade dat jaunt.
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(Former) Pope Francis
9/24/2019 03:38:10 pm
Oh shit he’s right... I never thought of this
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1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light
9/24/2019 03:52:08 pm
Religion has helped people through ptsd and stuff and helps people a lot more than it hurts people. Only extremists use it to do harm.
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Abraham Lincoln
9/24/2019 05:48:12 pm
So none of us are free in the first place?! All that hard work for nothing...
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Spencer Parizek
9/24/2019 07:42:15 pm
Micah and JT, if you’re actually trying to argue against what Theo believes instead of lumping in your assumptions of atheism and agnosticism, then your points are completely invalid. Micah, Theo explicitly wrote: “That’s not to say all human behavior should be excused because it was preordained, but it does mean that we have to analyze the true roots of our ideas to understand anything.” From Theo’s view—what you claim to be arguing against—robbing a bank can’t be justified by saying “someone told me to do it”. In addition, “objectively” arguing that we don’t believe in God simply because we are too arrogant to do so is completely illogical. In fact, the majority of us who don’t believe in God is due to the lack of proof. Please try not to shove words into our mouthes or tell us what we believe. Especially when those assumptions are so blatantly false. To add to this, your introductory argument is also contrary to what Theo said. His whole point is that they were subjected to suffering in the first place. Also, saying Jesus’s forthcoming was also in an attempt of spiritual reform just adds to the fact that it makes no sense that it did not happen again and does not disprove it. I’m nearly finished. Micah, I still can’t believe you put “science” and “scientists” in quotation marks. As though science is not a proven fact and is instead an abstract idea. Scientists exist to remind us of the EVIDENCE and patterns within nature. To put these things in quotation marks is simply hypocritical seeing as there is no concrete evidence for any religion actually having basis and itself being an abstract theory, which can solely be explained by “faith”.
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Anonymous
9/24/2019 08:08:18 pm
I agree that Micah's argument is problematic, but I don't think you're interpreting JT's argument charitably- religion may be a social, and not a moral "necessity" (he didn't specify). While religion is probably not a necessity, it certainly contributes to culture and oftentimes to social justice (see: Civil Rights movement). JT didn't say that it matters that you follow a specific religion (or none), as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and helps society. I don't think you can say that we should keep religion just because of its ubiquity in culture (ought we preserve racism or inequality), but it is one way to create meaning.
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Richard
9/24/2019 08:38:47 pm
I would suggest that you speak to the school on this. I'm an Episcopalian, but that does not mean I hate, belittle, or demean anyone for their religious views, be they deist or atheist or anything in between. I sincerely respect opinions posed in a setting based on an equal footing, with all participants coming to the table expecting and receiving the equal respect each individual deserves (If this were a different conversation, I might end that statement with "in the eyes of God", but that seems a bit flippant here). The fact that you, as a fellow Bulldog and Close community member do not feel that your beliefs are given the same respect as others is worrying in the extreme. This is most certainly a matter to be discussed with the faculty, and I think in particular with Rev. Hundley and Dr. Labaree. This is an Episcopal school, on cathedral grounds, and as such should hold to the widely-held understanding that all are welcome. ALL. Again, I'd quote scripture but that would be beside the point. If you need any help in any way, be it through discussion, or through going to the school with this, I am happy to help in any way I can.
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ya boi
9/24/2019 08:45:44 pm
Sure Spencer but lets all remember that in a commonly discussed argument like this its important to remember that almost all the "facts" for either side have already been presented - I think this argument is centered around one's opinion/stance on said facts, rather than if the facts being presented are valid and invalidate another fact (if you make an argument based on a fact, it's not the fact that supports the argument but the interpretation of the fact)
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Anno domini
9/24/2019 08:51:25 pm
Please, tell me, what are the "facts" to support religious beliefs?
ya boi 2.0
9/24/2019 09:04:13 pm
anno domini,
anonymous
9/24/2019 08:59:41 pm
Have you seen all the archaelogical evidence for the events of the Bible? It's unfair to assume that religion, (esp. christianity which seems to be the target here), needs to be based solely on faith in things that can't be proven. also, you kinda missed Micah's point on theoretical science like the big bang - Patterns may indicate it's truth, so it seems logical it existed. However, patterns also indicate the events of the bible are true, so it's unfair to ignore this. Some people believe in science and faith; I for one DO NOT believe the two are in direct contradiction and I know a few classmates who would agree. (not related but the big bang has quite a few flaws that require what you would refer to as "faith" - discrepancies in temperature and magnetic forces, some infractions of laws of physics and thermodynamics etc.)
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anno domini
9/24/2019 09:07:56 pm
*evidence for the supernatural aspects of the Bible
Anonymous
9/24/2019 09:16:37 pm
Yes, we have archeological evidence that many of the events described in the Bible are true. The Bible is a product of its history as well as a sacred document for some. On the other hand, the writers weren't writing purely as historians and they likely reported many events inaccurately or metaphorically (in freshman Bible, you cover the evidence for rewriting of biblical prophecies during the Roman exile, the impossibility of the Exodus, and the syncretism of YHWH and earlier pagan gods, among several other examples). If you want to talk about Christianity in particular, historians are in consensus only on the most basic details (that a man called Jesus existed, was a religious rebel, and was executed) and even these are disputed- despite what you may have learned in FOCUS or an apologetics seminar. As to your other point, I do think that you can believe both science and Christianity, but only if you take the Creation metaphorically. Finally, when you bring up the big bang theory, please don't talk about something you probably know (much) less about than even the authors of the Wikipedia page. The physics and thermodynamics involved are extremely complex, and the scientists qualified to speak for the Big Bang agree that the evidence for it is overwhelming. We don't know everything about its process (eg. the role of dark matter), but to point to the fact that scientific knowledge is incomplete is a fallacious God of the gaps argument. Science will inevitably expand. We don't know what came before it (if talking about what came "before the beginning" even makes sense), but there's no reason to believe that it is the sort of God we should pray to rather than an impersonal force-of-nature "god".
Anon
9/24/2019 10:07:05 pm
Come on man it's an Episcopalian school, are we not supposed to have chapel and blessings before lunch?
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Holden Lombardo
9/25/2019 08:23:13 am
This is an episcopal school that you chose to go to. If you’re parents forced you too, then that’s their problem. Lunch is one second of prayer you don’t have to participate in. Chapel is often times not very religious, for better or worse, and most of our homilies and chapel talks are about moral and ethical issues. Just because you are atheist it doesn't mean you can’t appreciate a lot of the things said in chapel. There are a lot of religious people at this school that chose to go to an Episcopal school so they could engage in a religious community while in school. As for Bible class, were not even studying Christianity now, but Judaism and later we will move on to Christianity, Islam, and others. It’s a world religions class, and since religions have taken a major part in shaping the world we live in, it is important enough to spend half a school year out of four high school years to study these religions.
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john rhee
9/25/2019 07:43:08 pm
hear hear
Spencer
9/25/2019 08:57:13 pm
Holden, I'm not going to give up going to such a fantastic school with an amazing community and education simply because I don't agree with its faith. That's idiotic to say the least. In addition, it's MIDQUARTER and we've only read one of the five books we were told was in the curriculum. We only take this class for one semester. Contrary to what Coach Ehrenhaft believes, calling it "The Bible" class was no mistake. We will only spend a small fraction of our time on other texts. Also, are you saying that the Old Testament has absolutely nothing to do with Christiantiy and was not its base? That it infact is not even slightly related to it? As though it wasn't in the same text? I agree, it's important to understand religion. Especially when taking a stance against it. However, to have a grade be put on your college transcript after an in-depth study of a religion you don't wish to be apart of seems insane and a waste of time to me. Especially due to having such a miniscule amount of objective truth in it when the rest of our classes actually teach valuable lessons. Some people say it teaches you "moral lessons", but that must imply we don't already know not to kill someone, do harm, and overall not have proper sense of right and wrong. Afterall, if you were a real Christian then you would know we already gained that knowledge after Adam and Eve ate an apple seven days after time began. (Don't throw hate. It was a joke and I understand some people believe it was metaphorical.) If that's what you believe, I refer you to my argument above.
Spencer
9/25/2019 09:12:31 pm
Again, I stress actually reading my previous argument. I said there's a difference between culture/community and religion. I shouldn't give up being a part of the community because I disagree with its religion.
Spencer
9/26/2019 09:10:18 pm
Also, I am agnostic NOT an atheist. The majority of my argument is that there is no evidence to back up the Abrahamic God, but there is no evidence that a god does not exist either.That being said, how could I possibly call myself an atheist? That's the equivalent of me calling you a Hindu. I don't mix up your beliefs, so don't mix up or brush over mine by calling it "the same thing".
Spencer
9/24/2019 08:52:29 pm
We are aware that this is a church school, which is what makes it all the more frustrating. We chose to attend this school, so we should follow its policies. That being said, I personally wouldn't give up attending this amazing school for anything, including my beliefs. With its community and not to mention its education there are very few like it.
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Anon
9/24/2019 10:15:17 pm
I would argue that one of the things that makes this school so special is the community. Even in religious and spiritual settings such as chapel, we can put aside our differences and join a greater community for either prayer or silent reflection. You don't have to be a Christian to appreciate the service, I have plenty of atheist friends who enjoy the silent meditation, homilies, and sense of community.
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God
9/24/2019 08:53:57 pm
Watch your back buddy
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Teddy
9/24/2019 08:55:31 pm
Warriors Blew a 3-1 Lead
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Anonymous
9/24/2019 09:08:48 pm
bet someone said it was all the will of god didn't they
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Atheist God
9/24/2019 10:18:07 pm
PREACH
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holier than thou
9/24/2019 10:21:35 pm
u satan-spawn
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Brother of the Alpha Male Society
9/25/2019 10:07:07 am
Shut up pagan—this school is no place for heathens. It’s an episcopal school and if you don’t like that go to Wilson.
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theo
9/25/2019 07:47:31 pm
hi freddie
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not freddie
9/26/2019 08:26:53 pm
_
Edgy atheist
9/25/2019 10:13:23 am
Ok we get it you go on r/atheism
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Non-Edgy atheist
9/25/2019 02:49:56 pm
Okwegetityougoonr/atheism
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Richard Davies-Van Voorhis
9/25/2019 09:09:47 pm
r/im14andthisisdeep
Theo Baker
9/26/2019 11:48:52 am
You guys have all convinced me. I will now become a devout Mormon.
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Beo Thaker
9/27/2019 12:01:09 pm
What about our synapses tho?
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Theos ipad
9/27/2019 12:04:54 pm
🤝🔑😤🚫🧢
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Lib Destroyer
9/27/2019 11:36:55 pm
Does God exist? Here are five good reasons to think that God exists:
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4.0 GPA (im smarter then you are)
9/30/2019 10:02:12 am
god iz real im smarta then you are so im right
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god is dead?
10/3/2019 06:07:45 pm
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
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2020
5/7/2020 09:49:51 pm
Hi from 2020
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2021
3/31/2021 06:01:05 pm
Hi from 2021
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2022
5/17/2022 09:40:22 pm
Hi from 2022
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the real 2022
5/17/2022 09:41:59 pm
funny seeing you here
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